This is why OTA updates in a car is terrifying

"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12) 03/19/2020 at 19:40 • Filed to: None

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When my Mac updates, which is about a thousand times a day, things get worse. Things get “more user friendly”, but generally things that you’re used to change and stop working. Like when the Display Preferences tab stopped showing actual resolution in favou r of a weird “user friendly” UI , unless you hold down a magic key while you right click it.

When Tom Clancy’s Breakpoint updates, it means I want to play it but I can’t. I can’t play offline, I can’t do anything. All I can do is wait. Sometimes it happens while I’m playing it .

These OTA updates were meant to be a good thing. New features and bug fixes over the internet, no CD required! But over and over again these put us at the mercy of the company that made the product we purchased, and do as much harm as good.

My MR2 doesn’t update. When I want to drive it, I can. It works the well it always has, unless I change it, which I’ve got all the power to do, a nd it works until I’m done using it. It doesn’t gain features through updates, but !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

It’s my car and it was built to serve me. Not the other way around.

Chariotoflove > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 19:49

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You can turn off auto updating, and I recommend it. I want to do system updates on my schedule when there are no impending deadlines and such.

It sucks when an app stops working. First thing I do is see if the developer has issued a compatibility update. That’s more likely to be the case if I wait to update my OS until it’s been out for a while. 

phenotyp > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 19:50

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Jesus H, don’t get me started .

Nauraushaun > Chariotoflove 03/19/2020 at 20:00

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That’s my plan. I never update my Mac . Unless, as you say, I need to for something that’s actually good. It’s nice and convenient, but it means I’m willingly opting out of security updates. That’s bad.

It should be able to update behind the scenes, particularly non-functional changes that only impact security. But Apple have no incentive to make that work, they’re happy having you by the balls.

Because the world has changed, from building useful products so that you buy them, to convincing you to use products so that you can be manipulated. Apply are quite happy making you bend to their needs. There’s no ROI in fixing it.

Nauraushaun > phenotyp 03/19/2020 at 20:00

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noooo

facw > Chariotoflove 03/19/2020 at 20:01

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I recommend leaving it on, though I do set Windows to nag me to reboot rather than doing so automatically. Too many people who turn off auto updates never get around to it leading to badly outdated and vulnerable systems (which will be hijacked at some point).

It does suck when stuff stops working so that it can update, especially if the update is some huge multi-gigabyte thing (not common for OSes, but not unusual for games).

phenotyp > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 20:05

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Timely post because my desktop just failed to install a Windows update.

Chariotoflove > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 20:05

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I’m not sure I get what you mean by by the balls. Smaller updates happen in the background, but a major system upgrade still requires affirmation. That’s why I’m still on Mojave instead of Catalina. The only real problem is that they make it difficult to downgrade if you need to. It’s a clean install. 

ranwhenparked > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 20:07

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This is why my damn work computer takes 15-20 minutes to start up in the morning. Why does our software, which has a most recent copyright of 1981 and is no longer supported by its original manufacturer (who no longer exists) require a daily update? I would think, after 40 years, we should have it perfected by now.

Chariotoflove > facw 03/19/2020 at 20:07

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I agree for most people. They are better off not missing security updates.  For those who want more control, they’re paying attention to their upgrades as well, generally. MacOS reminds you occasionally that you have updates waiting. That’s nice.

Jason Spears > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 21:05

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You also have the right to repair your MR2. Not as much your Mac, and almost certainly not an iPhone. Not sure where Tesla or other manufacturers fall on the spectrum .

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Nauraushaun 03/19/2020 at 22:03

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Mission critical equipment updates differently. and hopefully automotive systems operate more fail-safe.

There are usually at least two or three operating partitions.

Two for swapping back and forth between firmware installations, and likely a third partition, or memory segment that has the factory default baseline.

If the current firmware is in bank A, an update loads into bank B, and is tested , and checksum verified before rebooting with a switch to run the firmware on bank B, but a fall-back to bank A if unsuccessful.

The system reboots and tries bank B, if it successfully boots, Bank B clears the fall-back flag, and sets the persistent startup partition to be Bank B.

If reboot is unsuccessful, or times out, another reboot resumes Bank A, and the upgrade is failed, the system is running on the last known-good system, and either stays stable, or re-tries writing the firmware update to Bank B again, and repeats until stable.

IF Bank B is failed or empty, and Bank A fails or is corrupted, the system copies the factory default image into which ever bank is not set as the current startup, checked, and then attempted to start that default, and the update process to current software restarts.

Keep in mind, these are embedded systems, they are known-quantities, and the hardware is specific, as is the software.

This isn’t a modular PC with any possible hardware combination, nor is it Windows or Mac OS with all sorts of different combinations of drivers and applications.

The hardware is a specific list of components. The software has specific functions and can be, and should be thoroughly lab-environment tested, if the company is doing their job properly.

Plus, if it is truly mission critical, OTA updates will only even be attempted when everything else is idle, and if the update isn’t failsafe, it is more likely to require service department direct update in a controlled setting, not just anywhere at anytime.  

Nauraushaun > facw 03/21/2020 at 19:48

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Or if you get to work and go through with the updates and can’t use your computer for 40 minutes.

Nauraushaun > Chariotoflove 03/21/2020 at 19:50

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IIRC the smaller updates aren’t as seamless as they could be. Often involving waiting, being unable to use the computer, and having to restart it. And they come along almost every day it seems.

I mean that they’re priorities are around monetisation and hooking you into an Apple ecosystem, they don’t mind if this sort of stuff leads to a shitty user experience

Nauraushaun > Chariotoflove 03/21/2020 at 19:50

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Occasionally? Daily!

Nauraushaun > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/21/2020 at 19:51

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hopefully automotive systems operate more fail-safe.

You’re right, they probably will be. They probably won’t update while being driven. They may batch their updates and insist that you install them when you start the car. When you wanted to just drive the thing!

Nauraushaun > ranwhenparked 03/21/2020 at 19:52

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Which software is that?

Nauraushaun > Jason Spears 03/21/2020 at 19:53

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That’s a good point and a related issue. Will cars start to end-of-life themselves like smartphones do?

ranwhenparked > Nauraushaun 03/21/2020 at 20:12

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We use (used, I left yesterday) a very old version of Hogan Systems. There are new versions from the current company that bought the IP, but this bank never upgraded. It creates a compatibility  problem every time computers get switched out, doesn’t run quite right on Windows 10, and I never opened the laptop they assigned me, because the only things on it were Office and Explorer, since they couldn’t get any of our stuff to work on it. 

Nauraushaun > ranwhenparked 03/21/2020 at 21:54

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Ah, the famously slow moving banking industry. Sounds like a bit of a nightmare